The Smashing Pumpkins

The Smashing Pumpkins show at Truist Park on August of 2024 was amazing! They played all the hits from Today, 1979, Cherub Rock, Bullet with Butterfly Wings, and much more! I got there a bit late since they show started at 4:30 pm instead of at 6 pm like the ticket said! I missed the Linda Lindas and Rancid set but, I got there as The Smashing Pumpkins were starting their set. I heard Today through the loud speakers and by the time I got to my seat, they were playing Ava Dore. And I wasn't the only one who got there late! There were many others so, I'm mad at whoever set up the schedule!! Linda Lindas and Rancid must've played to an empty stadium!! Anyways, the Pumpkins were amazing! KikI Wong rocked the bass guitar like a pro!! Jimmy Chamberlin didn't miss a beat on the drums!! James Iha killed it on guitar!!! And Billy Corgan sang through so many of his hits I was in disbelief that so many others critizied him of playing off beat songs at other concerts!! Maybe I was lucky that day!! I loved the show and I wished I could have watched it from the beggining but one thing the Pumpkins did is made me want to watch them live again!!

This was my third Smashing Pumpkins show and it was amazing! The venue was really nice and I was three rows back from the stage on the floor! The only downside to the venue was the parking situation because the parking lot was full so we had to park around a mile away from the venue and walk. But that’s not the band’s fault, obviously. The band was so good and Billy even pointed and waved at me twice and once was during Ava Adore, which is my favorite song by them. It was awesome and they always rock live so go see them if you can!

I thought it was incredible as always! James had tons of enthusiasm that I'm not used to seeing. Jimmy was on point as he always is. The new guitarist had tons of spunk! I felt bad that Billy appeared as if his voice was somewhat out because I've seen him seven times now, and though he had an incredible passion on stage, his voice didn't have the punch it usually does. I can't fault him for that. Playing at a high level as often as he does is no small task. He challenges his vocal range with the set list he chooses, so I appreciate that. I do think he could mix it up though with songs that don't require such taxing vocal demands. I get his concern though with needing to stick to a setlist that includes specific hit songs because the fair weather fans that only want to hear the "hits".

I missed the first act, Teen Mortgage but made it in time for Weezer and the rest of the Pumpkins show. Sound for both acts was a little dodgy for the first song or two, I expect while the engineers worked on balancing the system to a full arena. Lighting was amazing and I was lucky to get some nice pics/videos on my phone for the memories! Both Weezer and SP delivered great performances, with a wide range of classic fan-favourites and new songs alike. I was concerned that both acts might not sound "as good as the old days" considering I started listening to them both in the mid 90's, but I was definitely proved wrong.

Buenas noches.Weezer es un grupo que a mí ni fu ni fa pero los 90 minutos de show que dieron en Dublín no estuvieron mal.Los 130 minutos (+ o -) que ofrecieron los Smashing Pumpkins fueron muy buenos,el show en cuanto a sonido, caña e intención de sacar todo lo bueno de la banda,me pareció realmente estupendo.Incluso en su tercera canción se atrevieron a hacer una versión de los U2 ya que tocaban en su tierra.Tocaron todos sus grandes éxitos sumando algunos temas más.El público y la banda a tope.De los mejores conciertos que he podido escuchar.Un saludo de mi parte.

The Smashing Pumpkins never disappoint and this show was awesome. The main opener Interpol was good as well, the sound was clear for an opener set, they played all their favorites, except The Heinrich Maneuver could be added, right? Pumpkins added an extra guitar player and backing vocalist, so their sound was full studio Pumpkins big sound, through all but the acoustic version of Tonight Tonight, which is becoming a celebration moment, like 'we made it, things are gonna be good now'. And with the Pumpkins, that feeling hits you on many levels in many old and new songs. Billy had fun chatting with James, they had as much fun as ever playing a solid set of all the right songs, from Today, Perfect, Disarm to Ava Adore, Tonight and Bullet, and later finishing with Jellybelly (best), Empires, Hummer, Beguiled, 1979, then James introduced the band members, then put the hammer down, 'This is Cherub Rock', and Zero to finish a great show, no encore needed. Someday maybe Drown, I Am One and Spaceboy might make the cut, but until then, it's still a Pumpkins Vampire world and down in belly of the beast - it rocks.

Smashing Pumpkins: 8/22/23 “It was my second time overall and second time in 315 days seeing Billy Corgan and Smashing Pumpkins LIVE, the former time was in Atlanta, this time Charlotte. Thanks to a LIVE NATION 4 for $80 (all in) my reserved seats at PNC Pavilion were waiting for me and my friend Derrick and family, a 90’s rock wealth of knowledge and top fan of SP. The shows were geared up to be entirely different, in fact they were entirely different tours, the former ‘The Spirits On Fire Tour’ with Jane’s Addiction, this evening’s ’The World Is A Vampire Tour’ with Interpol and Rival Sons. It was the 17th of a 26 show cross country tour (July-September), Charlotte having just missed out on the ‘Stone Temple Pilots’ who had joined the band on the prior leg of the tour. With a catalogue of 12 studio albums and 25 charted singles the band still features Billy Corgan 56 (vocals), James Iha (guitar), and Jimmy Chamberlain (drums) all since 1988. Jeff Shoroeder also on guitar since the 2007 reunion in lieu of D’arcy Wretzky who left the band or was fired in 1999 (take your pick) completed the line-up. Arriving early the temperature was 95° with a heat index of 104° at 5 p.m. for gates open. Taking our seats, the stage was set for Long Beach California’s Rival Sons (blues-rock) scheduled to open at 6:30. We were situated just outside the shade of a pavilion column in direct sunlight. Just prior to the band’s going on for a 8 song set my friend Jay surmised, ‘I’m going to see if I can find someone to talk to you about an upgrade.’ I suggested, ‘See if you can find the usher who complemented Sean on his tattoos, that might be a good start.’ After missing nearly half the set and some finagling the four of us were able to secure second row seats immediately behind a relatively small pit! The seats were elevated just enough to see over the heads of those standing. Rival Sons performed admirably with a decisively Zeppelin-ish sound. I suggest checking out the band if you’ve haven’t heard them and start with their second album ‘Head Down’. With our seats in place the second opener Manhattan formed Interpol (post-punk revival) took the stage at 7:44 p.m. The hour long set was somewhat lackluster to someone unfamiliar with the band, the songs sounding majorly the same. The music was solid but the stage presence (to me) lacked energy and personal engagement with the audience. I think that all along felt that I missed out on Stone Temple Pilots and went into it with an attitude. As the 9 o’clock hour turned, the stage was set for the headliners complete with light and sound checks. A complex system of suspended light rigs ensured an exceptional forthcoming visual display. The SP heart logo on the front of a stack of amplifier heads and a star clustered drum head decorated the stage. At 9:10 p.m. the stage lights dimmed to soft white as the recorded sounds of ‘Atum’ signaled the entrance of the band members. With finger points, rock on gestures, and hand claps from Billy the stage lights turned brilliant green to a driving bass-line kicking off the first notes to 1999’s #4 ‘The Everlasting Gaze’. Continuing hard and heavy ‘Doomsday Clock’ was next in the 21 song / hour and fifty minute set. Unlike past performances, the band drew from the composite of their musical catalogue pulling songs from 8 of their 12 albums, plus two covers. The first of which, the third song in, was an unconventional cover of Talking Heads ‘Once In A Lifetime’ complete with shredding guitar, screeching vocals, and a methodically pounding drumbeat. Corgan even changed up the lyrics to the delight of the audience… ‘And you may find yourself in another part of the world called Charlotte!’ Jimmy addressed the audience in a factual demeanor prior to 1993’s ‘Today’ from ‘Siamese Dream’. ‘Thank you so much Charlotte North Carolina. We’re the Smashing Pumpkins and we’re glad to be here, thank you so much.’ After the #3 ‘Perfect’ a tech brought out Billy’s custom painted Yamaha star and touring member Katie Cole joined him also on acoustic for ‘Disarm’. ‘Ava Adore’ had Corgan, dressed in his all black cassock complete with Masonic patch, face paint with what appeared to be a Z over a U on his forehead working the audience as he swung the mic out with a commanding ‘Sing it’ out to the audience, ‘We must never be apart’. Wiping his head with a black towel more than once, he tossed them out into the crowd, as well as a water bottle at various points. For ‘Tonight Tonight’ the acoustic star guitar was again brought out for a stripped down version with Jimmy that included some verbal interaction between the two. James_‘How you guys doing? It’s so hot and so humid (crowd laughs as though it’s no big deal for us).’ Billy_’James how you feeling tonight?’ James’_Billy ‘I feel great, how you doing?’ Billy_’Normally my friend I’m in an existential crisis. For some reason I took the day off today… We’d like to The Interpols, of course Rival Sons what a great band. We’re so blessed to be on this fantastic tour. Thank you for filling up this building for us tonight.’ James was dressed in a white western styled shirt with black stars and skulls with matching white pants. Billy_’James He may look like a space cowboy now but back in the day this young man and I started this band in my father’s bedroom somewhere around 1987-1988 thirty-six years ago. We can’t thank you enough for thirty-six years of supporting our band!’ 1995’s #2 ‘Bullet With Butterfly Wings’ followed finding it’s perfect place into the set. The second cover of the evening Manfred Mann’s harmonica driven 1964 UK hit ‘Hubble Bubble’ and was scarcely discernible from the original. With an all-three-on-guitar extension of the song Billy was featured on a two minute feedback driven solo transitioning directly into ‘Jelly Belly’. The deeper cut from ‘Mellon Collie’ which was not played on tour since 1997 proved to be a crowd favorite. The interaction between James and Billy continued, Billly_‘What day of the week is it? Everyday is the same for me. Is it Monday? Is it Tuesday? Is it Rock day? James we may not be twenty anymore but it’s happened that we’ve rocked harder than the audience can handle. I think you need to get out the James rock-o-meter, lets detect this level of rock-ness that’s happening right here.’ James panned the audience from right to left and then left to right with his finger. James_‘It’s like a 7.8.’ Billy_’James I think you need to get the rock meter out one more time, I’m not buying it.’ Apparently we hit a ’10’ as the show continued with ‘Empires’ from the new album followed by ‘Hummer’ and ‘Beguiled’. The band ended strong without encore starting with everyone’s favorite the band’s only number one ‘1979’ along with band intros. ‘Cherub Rock’ followed with a blues-styled guitar solo by Billy that transitioned immediately into ‘Zero’ arguably one of Pumpkins best songs —a consummate ending! The Charlotte performance in mine and my comrad’s experience was multi-times better than Atlanta’s show. Long past are the days of Billy’s infinite sadness. He’s battled his demons and taken the upper hand as was evidenced by his demeanor throughout the performance. He proved himself interactive, energetic, grateful, and referred to himself as ‘blessed’. Notwithstanding his lyrics live on to speak to a generation bringing about a sense of comfort through the relatability they offer. Billy’s description of the tour says it all, ‘That’s what [it’s] all about, bringing back that sense of community. If you don’t fit in, you belong here… a true alternative festival, where all the self-proclaimed weirdos and outsiders of the world can get together and have a party’. It sounds as if we’ll fit in perfectly!” Review and photo by DAve (Concerts #809-811)

My subtraction of stars is not anything to do with the band necessarily. I’d never been to this venue before and I thought the sound was terrible. We were in section 204 just left of center while facing the stage and row C which was close to the center aisle. Usually this is far enough back and close enough to the center to even the sound out a little bit and hear the vocals, but that wasn’t the case here. The guy from the Rival Sons has a strong rock voice that projects and you could barely make out any lyrics. I thought maybe the lead band was messing with the sound of the opening acts on purpose, like I’ve heard has been done for years, but it wasn’t much better for Interpol or The Smashing Pumpkins. If I didn’t know the song already, I couldn’t make out much of the lyrics. The guitar was not a clean sound either. I get that it’s a rock concert…but everything overall sounded muddy, and not in a good effects pedal way.

The Pumpkins 2022 Boston show was an awakening, resurrecting my adoration of the Pumpkins (full disclosure: Tonight, Tonight was my wedding entrance song) After Jane's Addiction was awful, cringe, and bad sound, of course Pumpkins were as good or better than ever. After new Empires, right into Bullet w/ Butterfly Wings which releases waves of emotion like it's my best friends still on stage after 30 years. Full spectrum setlist, new songs were good too. Jimmy always checking if everyone is ok after each bone-crusher, like Cherub Rock, Zero and new Beguiled, since we're all a little older now, love that. A better opener next tour would be Flaming Lips, who did 2023 Boston Calling, more deserving of a stadium tour. Already planning to see Pumpkins again in late August in NH. You can't beat the Pumpkins in the fall in New England 🎃, hanging with the freaks and ghouls... Who wouldn't be the ones they rock, to stand inside their love of sound and feel the urgency of now, to offer up the night and tell all our secrets, to let go all our rage and leave the emptiness in the cage, as we follow Zero on his next adventures...

I Know Billy Corgan has a history of being a troubled temperamental artist but I was so happy to see him enjoying himself so much on stage belting out their classic songs and a couple of great covers (Once in a lifetime by Talking Heads & Under the Milky Way Tonight by the Church) and Billy showed off his guitar virtuosity as well. my highlight was Billy and James on stage by themselves doing an acoustic version of Tonight Tonight Fantastic support from Battlesnake, Redhook and Amyl &the Sniffers cheak them out when they visit your town and the wrestling was ludicrously, hilariously fake.

I was disappointed to not be able to see Jane’s Addiction, but things happen. I had never heard Poppy before and I thought it was totally cool. The Pumpkins were deadly, as always. They always bring their A game. They rock so hard! Those guitar solos! Incredible! And of course, Jimmy is always killer on drums. I did think the sound in the arena was not that great. I don’t know if it was just because of where I was sitting (section 120) , but the sound echoed back and was fairly annoying. It kind of seemed like it was too loud for the space. I have seen the Pumpkins at an outdoor venue and the sound was much better. (Still crazy loud but not echoey).

Smashing Pumpkins/Jane’s Addiction: 10/11/22 “It was just another road trip to Atlanta or was it Planet Pumpkin, Alternative Nation U.S.A. for the 7th date of the 32 city Smashing Pumpkins/Jane’s Addiction ‘Spirits On Fire Tour’. Tonight began a 4 in 5 day concert run for me (part of 10 shows spanning 3 states during the month of October). It was about time for some ’90’s alt rock which admittedly is one of my weakest genres much to my chagrin— in fact other than country music, the entire decade was a musical blur and a virtual concert bust. I was super-excited for a shot at redemption and attending the show with my friend Derrick, a 90’s rock wealth of knowledge and top fan of SP was a plus! Smashing featured a classic core lineup: Billy Corgan 55 vocals, James Iha (guitar), Jimmy Chamberlain (drums) all since 1988, with Jeff Shoroeder on guitar as well since the 2007 reunion in lieu of D’arcy Wretzky who left the band or was fired in 1999 (take your pick). Of the band’s 11 studio albums, the only three I had remote familiarity with were Gish, Siamese Dream, and Melon Collie so I wasn’t sure quite what to expect. It had to be good, right? After all Corgan has stated that the bands sounds were inspired by groups such as Cheap Trick and Queen, two of my top all-time faves. My seats were upper bowl left credit LIVE NATION’s $20 ‘all-in’, can’t go wrong with that. The stage was set: Stage L to R: background vocals, guitar, drum kit (in center with Corgan in front), bass, guitar. There was a center light ring in the shape of a star above the stage and 5 up and down movable suspended light rigs, two single tight towers with beacon’s a top stationed L and R, a single stage-length light bar a front of the stage floor, plus a stage length LED backdrop behind. Smashing took the stage at 9 pm for a 1 hr and 50 minute/20 song set opening with ‘Empires’ one of three songs performed from the forthcoming ATUM 3 disc set. (The show however was set heavy on the ‘95 Mellon Collie album with six songs total and Siamese taking second with three.) With uninterrupted playing, songs 2,3,4 were Bullet With Butterfly Wings, Today, and We Only Come Out at Night. James introduced the band, ‘Hotlanta how are you? Thank you so much. We’re The Smashing Pumpkins thank you so much for coming out tonight.’ An unconventional and almost indiscernible cover of Talking Heads ‘Once In A Lifetime’ was a highlight complete with shredding guitar, screeching vocals, and a methodically pounding drumbeat. Corgan even changed up the lyrics to the delight of the audience… And you may find yourself in a part of the world called Atlanta Georgia! In ‘98’s ‘Ava Adore’ Billy showed off some dancing moves, which considering his black full length button down coat was quite impressive. ‘Tonight Tonight’ was performed acoustic with Billy playing his custom painted Yamaha star. The song was preceded with a dialogue between Billy and James, ‘James are you feeling the love tonight? Yeah yeah I’m feeling it pretty good. James thirty years ago just up the road in Marietta —we recorded our second record Siamese —that’s right, classic in Georgia.’ Another highlight was a Cherub Rock, Zero, 1979 trifecta, Jimmy transitioning from Cherub to Zero with a guitar part sounding somewhat similar to the Star Spangled Banner. During the band introductions James addressed Jeff, ‘What do you want to play us, Skid Row? Skid Row is playing here tonight or was it last night?’ Jeff responded with a riff from ’18 and Life‘ The evening winded down, or rather was it winded-up, with an ‘X.Y.U.’ that pushed decibel level limits. There was no encore. Given the band’s psychedelic tone styles I half expected a mellower performance and was pleasantly surprised with the loud and energetic output. Until this show I never took note of what a prolific songwriter Corgan is, I’ve typically just grooved along not paying attention. His lyrics are deep, haunting, and remarkable in composition. Needless to say I was impressed with the show! Jane’s Addiction preceding SP was yet another case of a band sporting a classic line-up this time from 1986: Perry Farrell 63 on vocals, Eric Avery (bass coming in after a 12 year absence), and Stephen Perkins (drums). Of note, Dave Navarro due to Long COVID recovery was replaced on the tour by guitarist Troy Van Leeuwen (Queens Of The Stoneage and Iggy Pop) JA took the stage at 7:40. The 1 hr / 10 song set featured 5 cuts from their debut album ‘Nothing’s Shocking’. Perry who took his final bow with a bottle of wine in hand was clearly in high spirits from the very get go. ‘I always look forward to coming to Atlanta, cause I don’t know, something about it makes me want to be bad!’ ‘I wish y’all could be in my mind right now there’s a party going on…it’s cool, there ain’t nobody in there to bother us.’ Jane’s performance, an 88-90 extravaganza, was far more theatrical than Pumpkins. Dancing girls accompanied the band on stage for visual entertainment. There were a set of monkey bars for the girls to hang on. When not on the bars you could find them performing aerial acrobatics, sitting a top spinning stools, and even on top of a rocking horse. At one point the three ladies molded themselves together on one chair in Cirque Du Soleil fashion. However there was no doubt that the essential’s ‘Jane Says’ and ‘Been Caught Stealing’ performed in tandem were the highlights of their set. Arriving late for a 6:30 showtime I missed the opener Poppy (Industrial Metal). I kind of wish I’d a been there to answer the question for myself, ‘Is she real or is she android?!’” Review and photo by DAve. (Concert # 710, 711)

This was my first time seeing The Smashing Pumpkins, and I have to say that this was probably my favorite concert of all time. I have been to many concerts throughout the years and was happy with the shows, but nothing compared to getting to see The Smashing Pumpkins now. I have been a fan since the 90s and Billy, James, Jimmy, and the band did Not disappoint. They are true entertainers and seemed to really enjoy the show themselves. This was a dream come true and I was not let down. Beguiled, thier new song, was performed flawlessly.

Finally got to a concert in time to see all the bands! Partly cuz it was my daughters first 'real' concert. I have seen SP back in the early 90's few times, always deliver the goods!! Poppy, the opening band, I figured they were a new band & she might dig them, seemed pretty good, will have to google em. Janes addiction was next, Not sure who the band members were? I think it was all orig. except for Dave? Not sure, they were never introduced. The set was honestly boring, as much as I love this band... Perry's voice, it's just time, time to hang it up my friend. The mix didn't help the lack of hearing him. The 'stage show' was pretty lame, it was his "yoko" wife & 2 other chics dancing (on each other sometimes) honestly sometimes THAT was the best part of the show. I just feel (like Lennon) he's tried to include her in so much, to most peoples chagrin, like his band 'satellite party' and now she is mandatory in JA's stage show, c'mon Perry... STOP! (HAHA oh the pun!) FINALLY SP takes the stage, a very sparse stage, just a big screen in back, not complaining, just, no amps in sight, nothing. Visuals were cool though. I cannot express how happy I am to have James & Jimmy back!! Jimmy is a tasteful powerhouse of a drummer who still plays like he was in his Siamese Dream days! And James, who doesn't love the rockstar with the best resting B*** face? The banter between him & Billy was so fun, I'm glad those 2 are side by side again. Sometimes a band can move fwd with new members BUT, the magic was just gone without James Iha. ANYWAYS, great show, song selection was great, couple of deep dives there were 'average' at best (meaning, no one in the audience probably knew them) there was even 3 songs in a row of Billy's best shot at electronic music, it was good, his 'dancing' was not LOL but I never expected BC to bust out some amazing moves, but it kind of reminded me of when Elon Musk tries to dance, again, just... STOP.

I am always appreciative of any chance to see my all-time favorite band live. They sounded great overall, although I had to improvise some earplugs given him we were experiencing over 110 dB in the arena. This tour is very similar to their last one as far as the set list goes. Most of the Cyr tracks were replaced by new cuts from Atum, but it otherwise had their usual 6 or so singles and a few other “special” songs that they featured on the prior tour. The good news is that the Atum songs are generally really solid. I wasn’t a huge fan of Jane’s Addiction’s set, but then again I don’t know their catalog outside of their 3 bigger hits. Every other track had the same tribal beat, huge, guitar, and bass, and Perry singing AAAAAAAaaaaaaa into tons of reverb. And the dancers were… unexpected.

The Smashing Pumpkins show was one of the best shows ive ever seen. The music was superb, the riffing was awesome & the banter was entertaining. I had a great time with my girls. Id definitely see them again. The only real bummer was there werent jumbotrons so the people way in the back could see more of what was going on. Thats a gripe with the facility, though. Also, you werent allowed to bring your own water & they were charging $4 for water that was ⅓ the size of the one i bought for the show that only cost $1. I have to constantly drink water for health reasons. A**holes.

It was an amazing show! Kitten opened and had more energy than the entire audience put together ...lol you had to see it. Smashing Pumpkins were incredible!! They sound better in person than on the radio. What a great mix of songs they presented. True musicians to the core. It’s amazing the growth that has happened over the past 30 years. Wish we could have had d’arcy there, but completely understand why not. I think the chemistry is better and with the addition of Hanson how could you go wrong. LOL again you had to be there. Love to all !! Great job The Edge Thanks for bringing them to Tulsa!!

It was a different kind of SP show. Acoustic and different arrangements of favorites. Some worked, some did not. Too many covers though. I mean, SP has way too many songs to play 7 covers. I know Billy has solo stuff, I know he played in Zwan, etc., but why cover Hole, Bowie, and the Stones. For an SP show I'd prefer 90% SP, 10% shenanigans. This mellow sit-down show was more 70%-30%. I'm still a fan though. I've seen them perform awesome and super crappy. I'd rate this a B-. Billy is still a hell of a musician, but I like SP the band more than Billy solo.

Great show - such a great line up of songs - and it fit so well with Liz's wonderful set. High energy, yet very intimate at the same time. Great to see Jimmy back with the band, and he's as incredibly accurate and articulate on his drums as ever. Jeff Schroeder is such a wonderful talent, and what a treat to have the beautiful Katie Cole on bass and backing vocals - her rendition of Billy and Courtney Live Malibu was on point! She's got some chops - what an excellent addition to an already great lineup! Billy is still the man, and he's one of my my all time rock heroes. The only thing that would have made the night better was if I had caught the pick he tossed into the crowd that zinged two inches passed my right ear at the end of the show.

Marilyn Manson put on a show. His music, sound, and lyrics were all very good! For me, it felt like I watching a really good movie! I really admire and respect Marilyn Manson. He had his costumes, props, and showed the crowd some love. He also spoke to the crowd.. very cool. I loved his performance can't wait for the next one! As for Smashing Pumpkins.. I love their music. But at the concert he was off tune, slurring and missing lyrics to most of his older songs, he would go in and out of the mic like he knew he forgot the lyrics. His performance was terrible, horrible.. I was very, very disappointed and he did Disarm in acoustic! Yuck.. He didn't speak to the crowd when he first came on stage or after he did a song. Even the body guards of NRG had to be in front of the crowd. He came and did not do too well.. his lighting was the same on each song and he did a couple songs just to kill time songs that weren't his own. I will never see Smashing Pumpkins in concert again.. Billy Corban was not prepared and needs to practice. I was very unpleased what I witnessed. Thank you God that Marilyn Manson was there to steal the show.. even when SP was on stage a whole group of people fled towards the doors. You could image how bad it was.. but it was obvious!